The Magic of Babywearing

So today I had the pleasure of chatting with Emma Jenkins all about Babywearing. It is a really fun episode. And it was actually a really enlightening episode for myself. So despite the fact that I’ve had three babies, I know things have changed dramatically in recent years when it does come to Babywearing. So I chat with Emma, and Emma is a mum. She’s a registered psychologist, and she has nine year’s experience working with families, schools, children and adolescents. And in more recent years, she has been working with mothers in the perinatal space. So Emma has done further training with the Australian Babywearing Association. And she has become a certified babywearing consultant so that she can help teach the magic of safe, comfortable babywearing to free up the arms and hearts of parents across the globe as they grow their baby’s brains by holding them close.

Emma has a passion for providing services that support mums in transition, to drop the overwhelm and reclaim control so that they can move towards the joy and peace in motherhood that they have always dreamed of. So today we discussed the benefits of babywearing for bubs. And parents, we discussed the benefits of the different types of slings and carriers. We talk about safety tips, things to be aware of ergonomics and the different types of babywearing that’s available. So it’s a brilliant episode. It’s really enlightening, and I know you are going to love it.

Before we do dive into this great episode with Emma, I do just want to let you know that today is the start of the free three-day pregnancy workshop. So it kicks starts in just a few hours if you’re listening to this as the episode drops. So first of December, we’ve got three days three ways to prepare for labour. And it’s a free three day workshop. This workshop it’s been held a few times, but most recently, it has been a quick one hour workshop. And I did love the three-day format where we can really dive into things a bit deeper. So the three day workshop is back on and it’s previously received some beautiful feedback these three days will leave you feeling more confident and empowered about your upcoming childbirth experience. In these three days, you will learn about active birthing positions. So what are some positions that you can use during the different stages of labour. We’re going to discuss pelvic floor preparation. So you will learn about perineal massage, what it is and how it may help to reduce your risk of perineal tears and episiotomy. And you’re also going to learn about the after birth Recovery Essentials to help boost that all important after birth period. So as a women’s health physio, everything I will be sharing in this free three-day pregnancy workshop are things I believe everyone deserves to know when pregnant to really help with her childbirth and after birth experience. To register for this free workshop before the doors close which is super soon, head to www.fitnessmama.com/pregnancyworkshop and the link is also in the show notes.

Alright, let’s get into this episode. So Emma, thank you so much for joining me today. It is really lovely to chat all about babywearing because it’s a fun topic.

EMMA JENKINS

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to talk about this topic. It’s very close to my heart.

KATH BAQUIE

Absolutely. And to be honest, I didn’t know this was a thing. I always felt like babywearing was just something you did and to discover you and how this is your passion and everything you do. I’m very honoured to dive into all things babywearing. So let’s just get straight into it. What is some of the benefits? Like why do we want to be babywearing? Like, for bubs for moms like on parents? Why are we doing this? Why do you do what you do?

EMMA JENKINS

Yeah, awesome, awesome question. I think, Gosh, that’s the whole reason why I feel so in love with this as a practice, and as a topic. And especially with my background, as a psychologist, you know, for me, the benefits of babywearing for both the baby and the wearer are just really enhanced, why it’s such a beautiful practice. So I really, for me, the biggest and most important thing is related to the development of a secure attachment. So a secure attachment to our babies, I’m sure most of you have heard that phrase before. You know, with all these beautiful hormones flowing and helping our baby’s brains grow. We know so much now about the magic of skin to skin with oxytocin. And, you know, I’m not suggesting that babywearing is enough to develop a secure attachment just in itself. But it’s a really magical way to help enhance that and to give us our hands back so that we can be giving our babies kind of what they need. Yeah, but I guess babies are born really dependent on us. They were a clinging species. So as human beings were kind of meant to carry our young, from an evolutionary perspective, that’s really natural. And that’s kind of how our babies are designed to survive.

KATH BAQUIE

Let’s actually take a step back how perhaps, went straight into it. So as you said, you’re a psychologist, were you initially interested in babywearing? Or is it it’s, as a result of what you’re doing your work that you’ve developed this interest?

EMMA JENKINS

Definitely both. So I’ve been a mum now for five years, I’ve got two little boys. Before that I used to work in schools, I still have that job I’m going back to after maternity leave next year. So yeah, my passion has really come from that history, working with children in schools, children and families. Having like a really deep understanding of like so many different things, you know, adverse childhood experiences come into it and kind of trauma in childhood and developing these beautiful secure attachments can be such a protective factor for so many lifelong things. And really having this safety net in your secure base as an as an infant, sets you up for success literally in every and pretty much in every area of your life. And we’ve never really I think in the past, even psychology as a field. It’s only kind of more recently that we’ve realized how important those first few years are. So there’s this whole movement around the first 1000 days of life and how our baby’s brains developing at the most rapid rate during that, that first 1000 days. So it’s about two and a half years and including in pregnancy. So it’s really, really a fundamental part of our, you know, of growing up into a functioning adult. Yeah, it’s having this secure attachment relationship with your primary caregiver. So basically, you know, as a species, we depend on this idea that we’re going to be born and someone’s going to fall in love with us and pick us up and, you know, obviously meet our every need and take care of us. And let us know that we’re safe in the world. So that also means taking reasonable risks and having some adversity and then being able to come back to a secure base after that, so that we can, yeah, feel that when something goes wrong, we’re still safe, and we’re still going to be supported. And that that’s kind of okay. And we take that lesson with us throughout everything else that we do, if you can see what I mean. So, yeah, it’s definitely come from that background, working in schools working with children understanding that this is coming from before they come to school, like, you know, knowing that some of these problems that are presenting can be looked at and targeted even earlier. And if people had some kind of really easy practices and simple things we could do to try and encourage these kinds of bonds and security. That would be really amazing. And really magical.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, sounds brilliant. So let’s dive into the different types of baby wearing. So when you say when you talk about babywearing, what are you actually referring to.

EMMA JENKINS

So baby wearing, basically, it’s not a new practice, it’s very ancient, pretty much from the beginning of time humans have been in some way carrying their babies with different devices. And, you know, this could have been animal skins and various things way back when. And it’s definitely fallen out in probably more in the modern era, like when people started going to work like the Industrial Revolution, that kind of age. And that was kind of where we kind of started to have these views of babies being independent. And let’s encourage them to be independent. And obviously, because we had to go to work and it’s practical, and that’s kind of where that started. So yeah, there’s so many different ways to wear your Baby but it basically means having them attached to your body in some way. And to me babywearing is where you’re using a kind of carrier or something that allows your hands to be free as well. And so that’s kind of also goes back to the benefits because benefits for baby are so far reaching like there’s more than just secure attachment. There’s things about breastfeeding rates improving and reflux, it even treats reflux because baby’s upright, and then also for the wearer because you’re, you’ve got this sense of freedom back in your life where, you know, sometimes we have these babies and things get turned upside down a little bit, don’t they, when we have a new, new baby, and life can get a bit topsy turvy. And I think that yeah, baby wearing can just be this thing that just allows us a bit of freedom. And we’re like, oh, wow, we’ve got our hands back for a minute. And also my baby’s not crying. And what is that about? Like, some magic.

KATH BAQUIE

I distinctly remember the first meal I cooked, where my baby didn’t cry with my first baby, you know, that five o’clock mark is always the time when she was really unsettled. And one day, I just popped her in, I think she was finally old enough to go in a sling. And it was, you know, I remember exactly the, where I was standing what I was cooking, like, I just remember that as being a really key pivotal moment. And then when it came to the third baby, she just lived in it, because that was, you know, you can’t achieve anything without…

EMMA JENKINS

For three babies as well, goodness me. But yeah, I’ve definitely experienced that moment, seeing many mums, even especially people who have believed my baby just hates the carrier, you know, this isn’t going to happen. For me, it’s really uncomfortable, or any of those kinds of, you know, things that have held them back where they’ve tried to do it, and it hasn’t worked out. And then we’ve just made some little tweaks and adjustments, or we’ve tried a different style of carrier. And just seeing that, like warmth come over them when baby, you know, quiets down and starts to soften and sometimes closes their eyes. I’ve seen that so many times. And I think that yeah, you definitely have shared that sentiment with many other people who have finally discovered that magic, so.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah lovely. Well, let’s dive into that a little bit more, what are some of the common reasons why people find it hard to use a carrier of some sort?

EMA JENKINS

I think so many different reasons, I think a lot of it can be just that it’s so foreign. And it can be really overwhelming, especially, you know, you’ve got so many different styles of carriers. And some of them are long, big stretches of fabric. So if you, if you just looked at this thing, it’s like kind of this big, long, Stretchy Wrap, or it’s a big long woven wrap. And it literally can just be a strip of fabric and you think well how am I going to attach a baby to my body wearing that? I don’t understand. And it can just feel kind of overwhelming to even get started or people that watch like a YouTube video and then think no that’s, that looks way too complicated. I’m not going to do that. Or they can try it and baby just cries and it just feels like really stressful. And so that’s not good, or they can feel really, really uncomfortable in themselves wearing their baby. So yeah, these are some of the common things that have come up in what I’ve seen. So we want to, yeah, look at doing things to target those problems.

KATH BAQUIE

And from my perspective, I do see a lot of women that have upper body, back aches and pain, shoulder aches and pains as a result of having a carrier that’s perhaps not quite well fitted for them to get it.

EMMA JENKINS

Yeah, exactly. Right. And often, it’s just like the simplest little tweaks like moving it up a bit higher and making it nice and tight. And you know, sitting in the back, if it’s a buckle carrier, which it often is, you know, just putting that back clip in the right spot. And yeah, it’s just can be really simple, but really mind blowing, because it can be so helpful after that.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah. Do you have any favourite carriers for certain ages?

EMMA JENKINS

So I guess we’ve always loved that question about favourite carrier. That’s probably half the reason I went into this job is because I just got way addicted to buying…

KATH BAQUIE

How many do you own?

EMMA JENKINS

Too many we’re not going to talk about that. But absolutely, yeah, it’s a bit different. But I think when I had my own just for me not for my business, I probably had five, like, that’s probably too many. I reckon that too.

So I think though for different ages, there is actually some validity there like having different carriers for different ages might be a you know a good thing. One of the things I look at with families, too, is like why do you want to wear your baby, we choose something that’s going to suit their lifestyle and their body and their baby. Because if you’re wanting to go hiking, for example, versus wanting to just be able to have your hands free to do some things around the home, then you might not need the same type of carrier and it might not be yeah, it might not be as important to look at all these little bits and pieces. So I think for a newborn, what’s really worth keeping in mind is that obviously a newborn baby has a body that’s a little bit more malleable and very, yeah, we just want to be really gentle. We want to be wearing something with them that soft and that moulds onto their body perfectly so that we’ve got that ergonomics. And so I think for a newborn, it’s really like more thinking like wraps and softer fabrics that are just not going to kind of move and manipulate the newborns body in any way. Right? Whereas for an older baby, you might be thinking or a toddler. You might be thinking more that you want to wear them on your back. Or you might be thinking that just that they’re bigger. And so you really want much more support. So you don’t want anything stretchy and you don’t want anything that’s going to have any gives in it, you want to be just firmly wearing them, and they’re going to stay put, and they’re not going to move and you’re going to feel really comfortable. Yeah, so often people that for a toddler would prefer to wear them on their back baby sits on your back. And that way babies up nice and high, they can see out into the world, if they’re curious, that might be more appropriate for them so that they can just, you know, enjoy seeing things and having that experience. So I guess that’s a few key ideas. But there’s lots to consider, too.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, with my three children only ever had one carrier. And I always I should have got another one because my carrier was only suitable once they had the head control. And they were a bit older. And it was brilliant. Because they could face forwards. They could face you. So it was good for different purposes. But I do wish I’d grabbed another one for that newborn period would have made life easier.

EMMA JENKINS

Just something really supportive at that age. So that they’ve obviously got that neck support. And that’s one of the things isn’t it, we’ve got to think all the time about safety is the most important thing every time you wearing a baby. So different levels of safety are required for different ages too.

KATH BAQUIE

Well, that’s a perfect segue into the next question, what are some safety tips Emma? What are some things we need to be aware of?

EMMA JENKINS

So the main thing that I always go back to is this acronym ticks. So TICKS, which I just like, it’s just really simple. Every time we wearing our baby, we always must check safety. Obviously, it’s like the first priority. So T stands for tight. So making sure that the carrier is worn nice and high and baby’s position upright. So we no longer recommend the use of the sideline slings because it’s a little bit too much risk on baby’s airways. So yeah, baby position upright, nice and firm against your body so that there’s no gaps and there’s no room for slumping, especially in a newborn. We want their back to be really nicely supported so that there’s no way that they can slump in on themselves. Because you know, at that point, they’re so squishy. And we really need it just have their bodies supported against housing that way.

KATH BAQUIE

So when you sit upright, you mean vertical? You don’t mean across your body, like on the diagonal?

EMMA JENKINS

Yeah, so upright. So yeah, vertical. Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Ah, that’s news to me. I know I’m bit out of date, I know my daughter’s bit older now. So I didn’t know that. When did that change?

EMMA JENKINS

Oh, it’s just one of those new things. I don’t think they’re really sold much anymore, to be honest, except obviously secondhand and things like that. So just Yeah, it’s probably a more recent thing that has changed with lots more babywearing consulting popping up and people doing formal training in that area. So I think that’s probably where it’s coming from. I’m not too sure. But definitely thinking about how we can reduce the risk of baby’s chin falling onto their chest. And obviously, like, that’s the same in a car seat, you know, like, there’s times where you need to watch your baby and how they’re positioned. And I think there’s also been some really scary and sad stories in the news that have probably prompted more safety, but there still are no mandates. And there’s no actual regulation board, which is kind of interesting. And yeah, just the fact that baby carriers can just be sold willy nilly in a way. Without, without really any structure around that. Babywearing Australia, there’s a new association, which has kind of been developed to target some of those things. And also to just train up lots more consultants so that people can go and help people get fitted safely and securely and feel comfortable. So which is great.

KATH BAQUIE

Oh, good to know.

EMMA JENKINS

So we did T, I is for in view, which is like just making sure we can always see our baby’s face. And that means being able to see their nose and mouth. And so that should be just by simply looking down. So if you get if you’re having a carrier where baby’s really quite covered, you probably want to look at just doing some little tweaks to make sure that you can look down and see the mouth the nose really clearly. And then we’ve got C which is close enough to kiss which means not you know, sometimes we put on a carrier. And the kind of natural thing to do can be to put it right down on your hips like to put if you’ve got a waistband on it, you might put it really low down in your hips, and then babies kind of sitting on your you know, further down your chest or on your stomach. So especially for a newborn, but for most ages, it’s kind of more comfortable for the wearer to if you were the baby up higher. And so that’s just a really nice one to remember close enough to kiss that you want to be able to just send your head down and be able to kiss baby on the head because that will make it really comfy and you can monitor them so easily and more commonly for the wearer. And then we’ve got K for keeping chin off the chest, which is what I was saying before so keeping your own baby’s chin off their chest and we really want to have like a two finger space in between the chin and their chest so that we’re always supporting that the airways are free and regularly checking our baby and then we’ve got S which is supported back. So we just as I said before, want to have that natural position on their back so upright and that tummy and test against yours and that that means also that they would be supported enough that if You were to kind of bend over or move, they wouldn’t fall out. And they’d be, you know, supportive in the carrier and safe.

KATH BAQUIE

Brilliant. And in terms of ergonomics?

EMMA JENKINS

Yeah. So then there’s couple of like, other levels. So I guess once you’ve got the safety, that’s kind of your basic, you know, we always want to have our babies safe, of course. And then we’ve got like optimal positioning, which is like the next level on top of that. And if you’re having any discomfort, or if babies just unsettled, I’d always just recommend looking into optimal positioning, which is more about having their legs supported in that M shape. So we want to have them in a little frog leg squat, if you can picture what I mean, with their knees a bit higher than the bottom. And that supports their health, healthy hip development as well. So it makes sure that we’re not putting added pressure on their hips by having a straight leg carry. And then also the J shaped spine. So if you can imagine like a little natural curve in their spine, and you can picture that with your newborn when they come out. And they’re kind of in a little bowl in a bundle in a way you know that their natural position is to have a bit of a curve in their spine. So we want to try to avoid having too much of a straight back. But that’s not to say that it’s unsafe to carry them in a carrier that, you know, that doesn’t do these things, because as I said, it’s more looking at that optimal, optimal positioning. And it’s still really beautiful to carry a baby in any carrier. As long as it’s safe. You know, even if their legs are straight, and their back is straight. That’s still a beautiful practice for you both. So yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah brilliant. And it’s really interesting thing, the different carriers around the world. Yeah, different cultures and also different. Yes, amazing.

EMMA JENKINS

And so much out there isn’t there? And like, yeah, I was trying to think of this before, like how many different styles of carriers are there. And I think, if you can kind of put them into categories, and I love Brooke Murray is a babywearing consultant in Brisbane, and she talks about them being like different shoe styles, say like, you know, a ring sling, which is just on one shoulder. And it’s quite, it’s really supportive, actually. But you know, it’s a little bit more of a, maybe a casual carrier, not so much something that sticks on and stays, you know, you can you can adjust it really easily take it on and off. And she talks about that as being like flip flops or tongs, you know. And then more like when you’re wearing a buccal carrier that’s really sturdy, that would kind of be more like your sneakers, something you can exercise in. Yeah, so she does a whole bunch of different categories like those. But there are amazing carriers out there for sure. And hybrids like different breeds that are together. So yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

I have to know what are the stilettos?

EMMA JENKINS

I think that was probably a narrow base one that doesn’t give you much like so when I’m talking about narrowing, but if it’s narrow base, then that means a baby’s legs are a bit straighter, but it also kind of puts your centre of gravity off of it. So if you can picture that with like wearing stilettos, you know, obviously you can wear them for a short time and they look awesome. And they do the job. But you probably don’t want to wear them for eight hours a day because they’re not your most comfortable. Yeah, so narrow base.

KATH BAQUIE

Emma you have to do an Instagram post with different shoes. Yeah. Two job. I’ll share.

EMMA JENKINS

Yeah. Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Okay, brilliant. So what are the benefits for the different types of slings? So we’ve talked a little bit in terms of if you’re going for a big hike, had them on your back so they can see out? Are there any other benefits you wanted to share in terms of the different types of slings?

EMMA JENKINS

Yeah, so many, so I guess, certain ones, much more cocoons. Like if you’re going to wear a Stretchy Wrap for a newborn. That’s like a really beautiful feeling of, you know, kind of imitating the womb in a way because there’s so much covering over them. And they’re beautifully ergonomic, because it’s such soft fabric. And also you’ll feel that way, because you’re going to wrap it onto your own body. And if you do that, obviously, it’s just going to mould perfectly to your body. There’s no you know, there’s no stiffness, there’s no adjusting. It’s kind of just on She’s amazing. wrinkling is awesome for summer wearing because it’s just kind of on one shoulder and it’s really just one strip of quiet, usually quite light fabric. So yeah, that’s great for summer, especially in Australia, you’ve got one arm free. So you’ve got a bit of breeziness and less fabric. Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

And is that the sling that you can breastfeed in?

EMMA JENKINS

Yes, you can breastfeed in that you can also breastfeed in most carriers actually, I think all carriers to be honest, it would be easier in certain ones. So it would definitely be easier to ring sling. And it would be easier. I find it quite easy in a buckle carrier because you just quickly loosen under your armpits. And that way baby drops down to a height that’s appropriate for breastfeeding. So yeah, that makes sense.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, I had a buckle carrier and there was no hope of breastfeeding. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. But yeah.

EMMA JENKINS

I know. But it’s sort of like that thing isn’t it’s like a dance like you’ve got to, I don’t know, figure out both things. And how are you going to breastfeed with the baby upright? And then are you comfortable doing that in a carrier and how do you how well is your carrier set up to be adjusted and moved and everything like that, too.

KATH BAQUIE

Yeah, there’s lots to think of. Yeah, brilliant. Did I interrupt you with any other benefits you wanted to discuss?

EMMA JENKINS

…of the different styles? I guess, like woven wraps are not going to move at all same as a buckle carrier, and a ring sling actually. They kind of once you’ve got them set up, there’s no give, so they stay where they are. Which means if you’re going to walk a lot, or if you’re going to do an exercise class like I do can get training. And that’s postnatal exercise, which is meant to be done with women’s health, physio by your side as well. So, you know, like you would see someone like Kath and then come to kangaroo and do this, if you had decided that was appropriate. And yeah, so something like that, you would want to use something that’s really firm, and it’s not going to move. So you’d want to be quite good at using a woven wrap in that case, because they don’t move at all. But you need to get them nice and tight. And yeah, I think that’s probably, there’s so many other things I could probably say, Kath. Oh, I don’t know.

KATH BAQUIE

Oh amazing! To wrap up, what would be your top few tips for someone who might be about to give birth or has recently given birth, that were really interested in baby wearing. I know, it can be really overwhelming if you go into, you know, maybe buntings, or one of the big shops you like, oh my gosh, there’s so much out there. So where do women start?

EMMA JENKINS

One of my top tips, I guess would be just considering what your needs are have a look at if you can find any blogs or information online from babywearing consultants, because often they do put things out that are literally talking about the benefits of different styles of carriers for different reasons. And, you know, booking a consultation, if you’re not sure. there’s a whole list of a directory on the Australian babywearing Association website. So there are lots of consultants popping up around the country. But in general, I would say you know, if you’re trying to use your carrier, and it’s tricky, I think, firstly, if baby’s unsettled movement is really important. So you know, some nice deep, gentle squats, or having a little walk like trying it on and then going outside for a little walk and coming back inside to see if that kind of helps. And if it’s too stressful, just go back to skin to skin, like take it gently and slowly, like just spend that time bonding rather than trying to force it and encourage it. But don’t give up like keep trying in little bursts. And usually because they love to be close to us. And that’s kind of their natural environment. Usually, if we can get it comfortable, and we can get you both feeling good. They love it. And they’ll sleep and you know, yeah, so we can get that feeling really beautiful for both of you.

KATH BAQUIE

Oh gorgeous. So thank you, Emma. Where can listeners find more of you?

EMMA JENKINS

Yeah, so I’m on Instagram, @nurtured_byemmajenkins. And I’ve got a website which is www.nurturenaturesydney.com.au, so people can email me from there, or find me on Instagram. Yeah.

KATH BAQUIE

Great. And I’ll put all those links in the show notes, including that Australian Babywearing Association that you mentioned too. So thank you so much for opening up a whole new, when I started this podcast, I would not have thought I’d do an episode on baby wearing and I’m so excited that we have been able to, so thank you so much, Emma.

EMMA JENKINS

Thank you so much for having me. That was wonderful.

KATH BAQUIE

And before we sign off, please remember my team and I will be putting together the show notes for this episode with all the links at www.fitnestmama.com/podcast, so be sure to head there to find out how to connect with Emma, and send us an Instagram message at @fitnestmama. And don’t forget the free pregnancy workshop that is kick starting on Wednesday the first of December. Have a fabulous day everyone and I look forward to you joining me next week for another episode of the FitNest Mama Podcast.

Thanks for listening to the FitNest Mama Podcast brought to you by the FitNest Mama Freebies found at www.fitnestmama.com/free. So please take a few seconds to leave a review, subscribe, so you don’t miss an episode. And be sure to take a screenshot of this podcast, upload it to your social media and tag me, @fitnestmama, so I can give you a shout out too. Until next time! Remember, an active pregnancy, confident childbirth, and strong postnatal recovery is something that you deserve. Remember, our disclaimer, materials and contents in this podcast are intended as general information only and shouldn’t substitute any medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. I’ll see you soon!